What does "better" or "recovering" or "supported" look like for you?

One of those brain days where I then forgot to tag a few peeps oops. 😂

Post above if it is of interest. But no pressure/expectation if it is not!

@Cuddlebear @Flutterbug9 @Chasingsunsets @MissGremlin @Captain24 @Till23 @creative_writer @Blackcloud @ENKELI @heartathome @Shaz51 @REDLINEZ750 @DownMoreThanUp @Judi9877

Feel free to tag anyone you think would be interested of course.

recovery is a broad spectrum but regardless of the need for it chances of success are so much better when your journey is supported. @AlwaysMyself @heartathome @Appleblossom @FearofUnknown @Sugarshack @DahliaDreams

even with support recovery is challenging and results can actually be hampered by well meaning support if it comes with expectations instead of unconditional support that is going to be a constant through each individual journey.

hope thats a good kick off for a very good thread @AlwaysMyself

have you looked into DBT?

not all of it was helpful but mindfulness, grounding, radical acceptance and wise mind got me through having zero work capacity over night which still remains in place today 3yrs later.

my injury is chronic only not visible until i trigger and i have no controil of when it that will happen. over stimulation, emotional overwhelm, startled response is worst building sites streets suburbs all create a constant state of anxiety which being in the country protects me from which is better and im surrounded by trauma informed support however recovery is a thought i control by replacing the word with progress.

simply feeling safe is invisible but id say equivalent to having a body cast removed long enough to reach the places you couldnt scratch before having it put back on in the blink of an eye.

i see rumenation in your thought process and that shits a complete head f@@k yet can be better handled with knowledge of it happening and tools to deal with iut when its happening.

happy to carry on if im helping sorry no triugger boxes to shorten message, these words are in response to your wish list if they are not helpful i apologise i may of just added to your rumenation just know your not alone, your post was not too long & if you ever want bounce off someone be assured i dont shiock eASy ; ))

@REDLINEZ750 I see a lot of wisdom in the idea of progress rather than recovery.

I do value the recovery concept as better than some old beliefs that mental health meant sick for life, and understand its historical significance in the field. I do not believe in excessive medicalising of mental health. Howver reality checks are important, and reasonable achievements. For me, mental health has alsways had a social and family context. I dont really want to recover from my family, or my childhood, or my children. Maybe a better approach is to integrate my experiences, rather than recover from them. idk. I believe our beings or souls or psyches, or whatever you want to call it, can be adaptive. That some of the experiences occur for a reason.

@AlwaysMyself I love the impetus behind this post, especially the reflections and unpacking of what would be helpful. I can really relate to the last 4. For 10 years, after I left my husband my mantra was... reduce my neck pain, and I explored many avenues, and eventually managed to reduce it to moderate or mild chronic pain from severe. Then the energy levels, improved when I found myself being surprised by getting out of bed with enthusiasm. Then, I focussed on the half smile, which I discovered in Tai Chi. Eventually I could allow it to blossom. I remember my first time laughing with my half Jewish half Anglican female friend. Sharing spontaneous laughter with her was great.

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@REDLINEZ750 wrote:

recovery is a broad spectrum but regardless of the need for it chances of success are so much better when your journey is supported. @AlwaysMyself @heartathome @Appleblossom @FearofUnknown @Sugarshack @DahliaDreams

even with support recovery is challenging and results can actually be hampered by well meaning support if it comes with expectations instead of unconditional support that is going to be a constant through each individual journey.

hope thats a good kick off for a very good thread @AlwaysMyself

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Thanks @REDLINEZ750 ! Absolutely agree with you there about support needing to be what each person needs themselves and not placing extra pressure of expectations - but instead being unconditional support for where they are at and the up and down nature of it. 😊

As for DBT, I have not had a specific DBT program as I see some places advertise, however I have had psychologist teach me techniques that are also taught in DBT - based on which ones are relevant for me. So when I first read through workbooks and flip-books for DBT most of it was familiar to me. A psych in 2002 taught me distress-tolerance & identifying triggers; and acceptance of life/things was a gradual process over the following 4 years also (however I should note that this "radical acceptance" for chronic things also unfortunately fuels my SI). I guess I have also "practiced" wise-mind since these years too - because I felt the emotions but always acted out of my rational/logical brain - which is why I have been able to "function" outwardly for 25 years (good grades at school, held professional jobs, completed uni, etc etc). My psych in 2006 taught me mindfulness/grounding techniques (well before it came into pop-culture) -- I learned mindfulness with chocolate lol. I still remember looking at the psych curiously and skeptically when she said we were going to try a new technique with chocolate 🤣. I was a teenager, so chocolate was a very good choice!

Feeling safe makes a lot of sense @REDLINEZ750 . It is very important to feel safe. And yes, having the right supportive environment is so important to feeling safe to then enable you to work on the underlying trauma and reasons for not feeling safe and those triggers. I hope where you are currently is feeling safe and giving you some space for that?

Is it at least quieter than at your home?

(I recall that you were a night-creature, and I am assuming that is related to the quieter and less triggers & people when going out at night time)

Rumination can be a problem for me - but not in the same way as many people. I am a very logical-driven person, so I have a big propensity to introspect - and on one hand this has helped me to recognise what my triggers are and also to be able to challenge my own negative thoughts very quickly and not catastrophise. It allows me to develop plans on what I need to do to solve my dilemmas. However, it also becomes a very difficult thing when what I am feeling/thinking is logical and realistic. I find it very hard to "live in the moment" -- for better or for worse! This helps me sit in distress because I know it will pass in intensity and not every waking moment is like that. But it also prevents me from not being able to see the chronic/permanent nature of my condition, if that makes sense?

A lot of my "wishlist" can be described as "balancing the scales".

I need to reduce the distressful aspects of life. But that alone is not enough, because there is no positive aspects experienced either. I need to add things to that "positive balance" side of the scales -- because I know life will always have some stressful things (even just the need to feed oneself and wash clothing! lol).

Most people have the ability to experience some moments of positive/happiness, or have some memory of what it is. I don't. And that is super tough for me to live with. A "good day" is a lack of any negative feeling. This is what i am needing to shift now. And unfortunately none of the therapy I have had has every been able to produce this, and the "behavioural activation" approach of keeping myself going day after day has sadly lead me to get worse over time because I prioritised my ability to function outwardly because nothing was able to improve how I felt inside. Enter chronic burnout. These techniques are designed to help short-term emotions/situations/fluctuations I guess, and expect that when one practices them that the person feels better or improves over time.

thats an amaziongly beautiful post @Appleblossom

its wonderful picturing you in that spontaneous laughter that we all need to thrive even if briefly.

just good tio see you post in general i missed your intelligent lens seeing the same things my un educated lens does and have always valued and respected your knowledge which is a difficult thing to say for i am aware that knowledge and intellect has not come from easy life

it makes a very interesting conversation i look forward to engaging with you on to where ever your safe to.

im the opposite though radical acc to me was a severe from the person family or friend which is a habit learned from pain of being no contact discarded by a loved one.

enough talk of that though seeing as you mentioned its worst case results for yourself.

cbt however triggered me hard i just felt attacked, questioned gaslit and it would raise my tolerance of bullshit to zero in 1 paragraph strangely it works miracles for others,.

yers for clarity i was a night owl it was based on a mixture of disasociation, stimulant use becoming an addiction over weeks not months and helping me be able walk pooky when everyone else in bed i could have not 1 car drive past and if ever a person they took one look at Pooky and well over other side the road before any interaction.

now im in a safe place and being supported i am in a 16week residential programme by my own admission and its a beautiful escape from the reality of a troubled mind in a messed up world.

i am tired, meds kicking in i gotta stumble to cabin i didnt want to not reply so sorry if some questioms unanswered.

night, be well!

@Appleblossom only just seeing your post now - must have posted whilst I was writing my own. I'm going through my notifications sequentially, just getting a lot tonight hence its an hour later that I've now read this lol.

That is so good that you were able to decrease your pain levels and increase you energy level, and to find that half-smile and laughter again. 😊

I guess I see "integrating" as a method of "recovery", if that makes sense? For myself the experiences I have had in the past have absolutely shaped who I am today, and my interests and values. And that is a good thing because I think I have good values and like who I am as a person. Similar to your experiences and your ability and passion for advocacy I suspect? (But please do tell me and correct me if this is incorrect 😊) Without your complex family experiences and history you may not have this positive passion and desire to make real change in this area, and area that you understand in-depth through your life experiences.

@REDLINEZ750 I feel safe to talk to you about things 😊. But there are some thing I am not allowed to give thought-examples of on the forums, which can make it hard for me to explain why some DBT or CBT does not help me.

Radical acceptance didn't help me, but I am not at all triggered by the concept of it or hearing how it sits with others. 😊🤗

The reason it makes it worse for me... I will try to make an analogy...

You are offered a lolly, but it is a boiled lolly. And you don't like boiled lollies - they cut your tongue on their sharp edges, and this one is cherry flavour and you really don't like cherry flavour. So if you "radically accept" that the only lolly on offer is a cherry-flavoured boiled lolly - what do you do next?

(Did you choose to take the lolly? Or did you choose to decline the lolly?)

I can understand how CBT could feel like someone attacking your thoughts/beliefs/behaviours. I wonder if perhaps the person who tried this with you didn't quite have the right approach -- especially when in relation to trauma! 😬

CBT didn't work for me except for the very basic of questioning my early beliefs. I guess though that is more because a lot of CBT type thinking was innate to me?

e.g. Person A was a male, and they hurt me. Person B was a male, and they also hurt me. Therefore all males will hurt me. Oh wait, I later met Person C and they didn't hurt me - actually they helped me. Hmm... I guess I can't say that all males will hurt me then. I guess I have to reframe it to some males will hurt me. 😉. This is how I learned as a teen that actually most male won't hurt me! Because I am too logical and analytical to not see & accept this. 🤣

But you can't deny through CBT that some males may hurt me - because it is a fact in life that some people (both males and females and non-binary) do sometimes hurt people -- but thankfully it is the minority of people who do it deliberately! I guess that goes back to @Appleblossom 's concept of integrating experiences too -- validating that what has happened has happened and is real. But also trying to find balance of seeing the bigger picture too such as times when things have been different - and what it was that made the difference better.

Please never feel any pressure or rush to read or reply. 🙂 Totally OK to leave it as long as you want/need. I know you have very limited laptop/internet time during your stay. And I would always want you to make sure you are making the most of what will help you the most during it. 😍

These are questions that I haven't asked myself @AlwaysMyself

What would make my life better? Shite. I have no idea! In an ideal world? Let me see...

I wish for many things that require (in my mind) rescuing from past trauma. I'm working through a part of my childhood trauma (again) at the moment. I'm okay. I look forward to speaking to my psych about it.

If I have to reward myself every day, I will. Usually, a coffee out somewhere, getting out of the unit. I think going back to journalling or writing poetry might be on the cards again. I haven't written for many years but have a lot in my head.

In an ideal world, everyone would be transparent and I could meet some more lovely people. I don't trust easily. In reality, I should join more groups to meet other people, but I like talking to friends on here more!

I like this idea AlwaysMyself!

You have some big things to try and overcome! I can relate to a lack of motivation of most things but if it's something I really want to do, then there's no stopping me! I get a cleaner because I have no motivation there. Same with cooking. Meals on Wheels will do instead. I try to make myself go out when I'm asked even though a part of me wants to stay home. I feel safe at home!

I hope you're doing okay today, my friend! 💜

Hi @AlwaysMyself

thanks for posting this, your post has made me think.

This part I really relate to -

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And unfortunately none of the therapy I have had has every been able to produce this, and the "behavioural activation" approach of keeping myself going day after day has sadly lead me to get worse over time because I prioritised my ability to function outwardly because nothing was able to improve how I felt inside. Enter chronic burnout.

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I had to look up "behavioural activation" because I had no idea what that was. I came across this article which made it pretty clear - if the article is accurate, that is. Behavioural Activation

Article says it's an evidence-based treatment so perhaps it is.

I have been very focused on functioning over feeling my entire life. This all came about due to a complex set of life circumstances, where I suppose that basically, I was always 'rewarded' for getting things done and being productive. As I suppose we all are to some degree. There may be cultures that don't reward productivity, but I think ours does.

So... I think that maybe for me, the big problem was that I was doing things and achieving things that other people valued, rather than the things I innately valued within my own little soft heart.

And to go out and genuinely find the things that I value within myself when no-one is telling me what I should be doing is really scary and just plain hard. I suppose this is about identity.

Hence, I was always in chronic burn-out and very anxious.

I suppose that if I was in therapy (which I'm on the long waiting list for) then I would expect the therapist wouldn't focus on something like 'behavioural activation' without first exploring the things I genuinely want to do, rather than things that look acceptable for an outsider looking in - like work, or volunteering, or exercising. I think I've proven I can do all that sh*t but perhaps it just wasn't the right sh*t for me.

Does this make any sense to anyone? I can see that there could be downfalls to this behavioural activation scheme if it was not applied carefully.

How are you today @AlwaysMyself? xx